Author Topic: How to suggest a roll  (Read 2650 times)


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How to suggest a roll
« on: February 01, 2011, 12:13:05 am »
Before suggesting an idea
Look over the removed rolls so you can see what will not work.

Posting an idea
When making a new roll suggestion please title your post as such:
Roll Idea: <Your Roll Name>

Understanding Roll Types

The 4 basic roll types:
  • Timed rolls:  
    Instant kills, fire bullets, invisiblity, ect.  Anything that is powerful and has a limited time limit.  These are major game changes and therefore don't generally last more then 10 - 30 seconds.
  • Till death rolls:
    Berserker, Health Regen, crouth invisiblity, ect.  Anything that is semi powerful but won't affect gameplay dramatically or just would work better if it was until death.  These are generally the most powerful rolls when combined together.
  • Droppable rolls:
    Sandwiches, bear traps, flames, ect.  These are rolls that you can horde to yourself and drop at a moments notice in strategic places.  These generally help your team out and are used more strategically.
  • Pick-ups:
    Backpacks, blizzard backpacks, mediraydar, ect.  These are rolls that you can drop when you die (or by pressing the drop intel button) and re pick up (or have the enemy team pick them up).  These require strategy in that certain classes can gain more of a benefit from them then others (scouts picking up redbull isn't helpful to him at all unless he gives it to another player.)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 05:21:27 pm by Fox »


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Re: How to suggest a good roll.
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2011, 12:36:06 pm »
Today I'm going to discuss...

BALANCING ROLLS!  Underpowered vs. Overpowered.

This one is pretty self explanatory.  Basically, you need to consider how the roll mechanics will work with all 9 classes, their mechanics (such as cloaking) and their weapons.  Easy right?  Well most people DO do that when they are coming up with roll ideas.  Often though, other ROLLS are forgotten when you consider an idea?  What do I mean exactly?  I'll show you.

Lets say I came up with a roll called:

Roll Name: Death Touch
Cost: 30
Duration: Till death
Gameplay: Instantly kills any player you bump into
Effects (Sounds & Visuals): A fart sound when you run into someone
Class Restrictions: (None)
Other Thoughts: It would be hilarious to kill someone instantly.

Now a few things should be considered when reading this roll.  How would it affect the person using it?  Is it powerful?  Yes.  Is it TOO powerful in that the other team can't defend?  Well its easy to kill someone with death touch if the other team didn't KNOW they had death touch.  Maybe a glowing indicator or icon or something (this is why toxic has those green skulls.)  O.k so it can be balanced with that too.

Now what about classes?  Well scouts run fast but are kind of week.  Maybe don't give it to scouts?  Spies?  Oh.... would this work why they are invisible too?  A dead ringer spy can really fuck people up with this.  So scout and spy probably shouldn't be able to get this.  Soldiers / demo can move around with rocket / sticky jumping but thats awfully risky for them so the reward is worth it.  Heavies can move fast with the steak sandwich and pyros with the set bonus, but they take more damage.  Medics, engies and snipers aren't usually near the front front lines and even then they don't have that much health.

O.k now what about rolls?  What if this was combined with invisibility?  They could walk around and kill people instantly with practically no way of being found.  If we have a glowing indicator that is pretty obvious, invisibility won't really help too much.

Wait its buyable?  That seems like a powerful buyable roll.  And its till death?  Maybe we could make it a pick up.... or just 30 seconds.  Probably should discuss that with people first on the forums.  I honestly don't know.  Is there a cooldown between people you bump into and kill?  We could add that too.

So we changed the roll a bit, but not too much where it isn't useless.  Don't forget that things sound better on paper sometimes but don't work so well in game.  But thats why we do beta testing of rolls right :).  I generally make a powerful roll and find ways to balance it.  It seems easier to do it that way instead of working up.

So how does the roll look now:

Roll Name: Death Touch
Duration: 30 - 60 seconds.  Maybe pickupable?  Cooldown between killing people?
Gameplay: Instantly kills any player you bump into
Effects (Sounds & Visuals): A zappy sound or something that people will see when you kill someone.  Glowy indicator to make sure your seen by the enemy team.
Class Restrictions: Everyone but Spy and Scout
Other Thoughts: Its a good way to kill someone in melee range without meleeing.

I hope that helps gentlemen.  If you want to practice, pick apart that roll and find ways that it won't work.  Programmers do this all the time; its considered a nice way to help people make strong, sturdy programs.  The same can be applied to rolls.  You WANT rolls to work, but you want to make sure the game is still fun if its implemented.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 12:38:40 pm by Spycheckme! »


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Re: How to suggest a good roll.
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2011, 09:54:16 pm »
Today I'd like to discuss...

Learning Curve

Whats learning curve?  Well it basically boils down to understanding the mechanics of a roll.  Some rolls are more complicated then others (and some that seem very simple are actually complex!).

I'll compare a simple roll (I think) to a complex roll.

Simple RollSandwich

You put this on the ground, it heals team mates around like a dispenser.  I don't think it heals enemy spies.  Thats it.  Can't be put near another sandwich.  Can't be destroyed.

Complex RollTelesphere

If you touch an enemy telesphere, you will be teleported to the farthest team mate from the telesphere after a few seconds while your screen changes color (red or blue).  Can teleport you to spawn, their spawn (if someone no clips), skybox (again no clip).  Can be sapped by spies disguised as the other team with a sapper out.  Can't be destroyed otherwise.  Does nothing if the fartest team mate is in the telesphere (aka one person on your team).  Can't be placed near spawn.

The point I'm making here is that some rolls require a bit more knowledge to use then others.  Now for RTD veterans; its no problem.  Hell even new rolls can be read about and learned if your on the forums.  But what about new players?  Try explaining a telesphere to a new player in chat or over the mic (in detail), see how far you get doing that and having people pay attention to you.  Its tricky.  Now the sandwich is a one sentence explanation:  You put it down, it heals like a lvl 1 dispenser.

New players can understand something like rolling bombs, buffed health, and instant kills.  But things like diglets, amplifiers, and yoshi are a bit more complex.  Does it mean they are bad rolls?  Absolutely not.  They just take a bit more play time to understand.

So when designing a roll, try to see it from a brand new players perspective.  Is it super difficult to understand?  Even for experienced players?  If you answer yes to the ladder, then you may want to dumb it down a bit.  Does this mean if you have a good complex idea that you shouldn't submit it?  Not necessarily...  It can always be tweaked through input from others to help make it a good roll, just consider ease of use when thinking of ideas.


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Re: How to suggest a roll
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2011, 08:25:26 am »
Today I will discuss:

Helping the coders out and understanding limitations

This one will be brief.  Basically when you are coming up with an idea for a roll, you need to realize that some things are just too complex to accomplish using the source engine, or can't be done at all.  An example would be changing the size of players.  So does that mean if you have a roll idea that sounds good but are unsure on the complexity that you shouldn't suggest it?  Nah, suggest it anyway.  Just be open minded that certain things can't be done.  Be nice to the coders :)

Suggesting models / sound

Often times a model will be needed for a certain roll.  You can help your roll and make it easier for Fox and the other coders if you can help find a model.  The best way of doing this is using Garry's Mod  It shares the same game engine (source) as TF2, so models in Gmod can easily be transfered over to tf2.  Sound clips are easy, use google or something similar.  I don't know the exact file extension that sound clips need, but I know there are converters out there that will convert the sound into whatever type is required.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 09:39:03 am by Fox »


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Re: How to suggest a roll
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2011, 12:26:08 pm »
Sounds clips can be in pretty much any extension, they're easy to convert. ;)


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Re: How to suggest a roll
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2011, 08:18:11 am »
Today I'm going to discuss:


Again this will be short because its something that you have to judge yourself.  This will just give a few basic tips in deciding if something is fun or not.

When considering if a roll is fun or not, you need to keep in mind BOTH teams and map types.  What do I mean by that?  Well is it fun for the person using the roll?  What about the team that the roll is used against?  How does it work on capture the flag?  Payload?  Capture point?  King of the hill?  Melee only?  Keep in mind that certain rolls can be disabled by admins if they are deemed annoying and not fun (for example, when Fox disabled a lot of the rolls on degroot keep such as the Hulk and spiders because it was way too overpowered and unfair.)

This is kind of like balancing a roll when its over powered or underpowered, but you need to consider the human factor in it too.  Remember how everyone was complaining about nastacha and its slow down effect?  Or the original sandman how it stunned and you couldn't move?  Mechanics like that are usually frowned upon in an FPS.  "But spycheck,"  you're probably saying, "we have a few rolls that stun people like the bear trap, punching dummy, ice patch freeze, and pitching machine."  Yes that is true, but these rolls are TRAPS and can be easily avoided.  When you come up with a roll called "stun shots" that lets you stun everyone you hit, its not going to be that much fun for the opposing team since its practically unavoidable.

Trap rolls can get away with a little bit more punishing effects because A.) if you see a trap, you can avoid it.  B.)  If its placed in a great spot, you reap the reward of putting down a clever trap.  C.) You can communicate with your team to tell them where traps are an destroy them.

Rolls that can kill you or other players instantly are usually a big no no.  If you roll a bad roll, you should be able to survive it if you have full health.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 09:15:19 am by Spycheckme! »

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Re: How to suggest a roll
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2011, 01:52:42 am »
When suggesting rolls, heres a few questions you should ask your self.

How will this interact with other rolls and other effects on the server?(if you think i do this on your suggestions to be a dick, your mistaken, i do this because most people tend to not account for anything outside of their suggestion)

Are There rolls already on the server that have near the same function... (Brick wall= area denial [not a real roll bear with me]   Snorlax = area denial)  this example they do the same thing... this doesnt accomplish anything.

"Am i suggesting this roll, with the pure intention of abusing it?" (the rtd mod is intended to be fun and amusing.... not a Greifing tool)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 01:55:22 am by Fenex »
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