Author Topic: Facing Down a Roll-Stacker: David vs Goliath.  (Read 2381 times)

Dragnix

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Facing Down a Roll-Stacker: David vs Goliath.
« on: December 09, 2011, 09:47:24 am »
We've run across it time and time again on the server. Someone before the round, buying as many rolls at they can, becoming an ungodly force of death/destruction, or in some cases just plain annoyance. There are good examples of people who routinely do this (*cough* Tom Cruise *cough*), but there ARE ways of dealing with a roll stack combination, but sometimes you have to alter your strategy to deal with it.

These will be general strategies to deal with more of the overcombination of roll stacks. Please note, these are general guidelines to face the rollstacks with less cost to the player. Yes, of course you can by class immunity or instakills. But this is taking people with the rollstacks down WITHOUT having to spent 100 credits to do it

Tom Cruise Special #1: Scout Jumps, Ammo Regen, Berserker, Armor w/ Shortstop + sandman[/u]

1.  Change to Heavy, and pull out that Natascha that's probably got a thick layer of dust on it

The thing that makes this roll stack problematic is simple: The scout jumps.  The ability to lay down fire over and over again without being in the range of most weaponry, or in an angle where most weaponry can't deal with it, presents the biggest problem. Well that, and the ability for if the scout does get into trouble, to run away for health at that point. Or hell, even hit the scout.

Natascha, while rarely used, can make this battle a bit easier for everyone. The thing is that the scout will become a lot less manueverable in this case, and allow other team members to get some hits in on the scout as well. This works if other members of the opposing team aren't going after you and you have the ability to focus on the scout.

2. Get the jump on him with the Gunslinger. And pull out a wrangler as well.

Sentries are obviously a good way of dealing with anyone if they get into range, but obviously the problem with this roll stack is that once they know the sentry location....well does it matter? THe scout will avoid that area all at possible.

Laying down the mini sentries in odd location will catch the scout off guard, and burn through some of that armor, and the ability to quickly relay a new sentry down with minimal effort helps a heck of a lot. Wrangle for more effect as well.

3. See someone just recently stunned? Wait for the scout to move in.

Common tactic with this rollstack is ability to stun with the sandman, then run in quickly for the kill. That's to your advantage, and use your stunned ally who's being attacked to get a jump on the scout to burn through his health/armor.

Tom Cruise Special #2: Scout Jumps, crouch invisiblity/invis on low health, berserker/Armor w/ Shortstop + sandman[/u]

1. Fire bullets and Jarate Bullets: Quick, effective, and revealing.

The key to this special lies in the ability for the scout to get away using the invis, or to hide from enemies while peppering them with shortstop shots.

Fire/Jarate bullets are quick buys that can reveal the scouts location and keep it marked, and will most of the time reveal the scout even if you see him go into his hiding state. Unlesss other jarate/fire based weapons, guns like the SMG, minigun, and shotgun/pistol will allow you to spray and area just to find the scout, and is effective at most times.

2. For the love of god, WATCH YOUR SURRONDINGS

One thing that I notice commonly with people who have trouble with these rollstacks is that they are not paying attention from where the source is coming from. The sandman and shortstop leaving telling marks when leaving the enemy scout, the path of the ball as well as the flash of the shortstop muzzle. Pay attention to where it's coming from, and like a spy, get the drop on him. Players like tom cruise will feel safer with that invis and will pay attention a bit less to their surrondings, get the jump on him.

3. Guard health packs with reveal rolls

Cows, flames, beartraps with bleed, spiders is what I'm talking about. Sooner or later, the scout is going to make a dash for health if he needs it. Scout jumps dictates to go for open environments, and depending on the map, dictates where to put these rolls (and where the current objective is). Guard those health packs so that the scout has to either take care of it, or accept that he'll be visible for some time.

Medic Menace: Ammo Regen/Berserker/(backpack/uberbow/armor/backpack/redbull) with Crusader's Crossbow[/u]

1. Reflect Shield, Reflect Shield, Reflect Shield

A cheap roll to buy to counteract the roll completely. You'll have to be weary of the fact of other opponents, but getting in the medics face with the reflect shield will most likely kill him due to his reflected arrows.

2. Use RTD objects as cover.

The difference between the onslaught of the medic crossbow versus other ammo regen/berserker combos (aside of the scout weaponry) is the fact that it doesn't deal splash damage. Which is good for you, as objects like snorlax + cows will provide additional cover against it. Place them down in strategic locations to work the medic back into a corner: you don't want ot give a medic an escape route.

3. Blizzard Backpack

This is in combination of spies. Coordinate with a teammate who's a spy to get him in poisition, then get a hit on the medic with the backpack blizzard. The medic will have no way to protect himself, leaving him horribly open for a backstab.


             

Avenger

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Re: Facing Down a Roll-Stacker: David vs Goliath.
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2011, 12:25:26 pm »
Rollstackers? I don't notice them much, I just punch them in the face and they die >_>
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Halorym

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Re: Facing Down a Roll-Stacker: David vs Goliath.
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2011, 08:33:55 pm »
David has a longbow, I'm covered

That said, I like that someone made this thread, one of my favorite RTD activities is taking down stackers without being stacked myself, only lame-asses buy instakills, period
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 08:46:52 pm by Halorym »

Gibus-Toting Irishman

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Re: Facing Down a Roll-Stacker: David vs Goliath.
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2011, 10:06:13 pm »
Quote
Tom Cruise Special #1: Scout Jumps, Ammo Regen, Berserker, Armor w/ Shortstop + sandman

1.  Change to Heavy, and pull out that Natascha that's probably got a thick layer of dust on it

Natascha does not go through armor, unless it's been changed since I've last been shot with it.
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Jarrett000

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Re: Facing Down a Roll-Stacker: David vs Goliath.
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2011, 10:27:22 pm »
Quote
Tom Cruise Special #1: Scout Jumps, Ammo Regen, Berserker, Armor w/ Shortstop + sandman

1.  Change to Heavy, and pull out that Natascha that's probably got a thick layer of dust on it

Natascha does not go through armor, unless it's been changed since I've last been shot with it.
Well you can change after its all gone :P
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Gibus-Toting Irishman

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Re: Facing Down a Roll-Stacker: David vs Goliath.
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2011, 11:47:32 pm »
Quote
Tom Cruise Special #1: Scout Jumps, Ammo Regen, Berserker, Armor w/ Shortstop + sandman

1.  Change to Heavy, and pull out that Natascha that's probably got a thick layer of dust on it

Natascha does not go through armor, unless it's been changed since I've last been shot with it.
Well you can change after its all gone :P

The armor's the hardest part about those guys though.
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Jarrett000

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Re: Facing Down a Roll-Stacker: David vs Goliath.
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2011, 01:04:36 am »
Quote
Tom Cruise Special #1: Scout Jumps, Ammo Regen, Berserker, Armor w/ Shortstop + sandman

1.  Change to Heavy, and pull out that Natascha that's probably got a thick layer of dust on it

Natascha does not go through armor, unless it's been changed since I've last been shot with it.
Well you can change after its all gone :P

The armor's the hardest part about those guys though.
I always thought it was the health regen. His health is regenerating back faster than you can deal damage with your Minigun long range :P
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Spycheckme!

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Re: Facing Down a Roll-Stacker: David vs Goliath.
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2011, 09:25:34 am »
Too lazy to type a huge paragraph.


Other combos to watch for:


Turtling engineers (with amplifiers, and traps, backpack, ect)


Chain ubering Super medics (lots of medic rolls)


Redbull spies


Hulk




Dragnix

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Re: Facing Down a Roll-Stacker: David vs Goliath.
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2012, 03:09:10 pm »
Roll Stack #2: Turtiling Engineers(amplifiers, traps, backpacks, building shield)

1. Make him Dance
Turtles don't like moving. They like staying where they are, and damn it if they are going to move from that spot. Make them move with groovitron. As mentioned in the groovitron thread, forcing the engineer to jump in the air, will force the engineer away from his nest, or at least delay him from being able to repair it.

2. Spies should layer his build area with their own traps
Again, spies can put down rolls without decloaking. Any traps can make it hard for an engineer to be able to deal with, such as flame, spiders, bear traps, etc. Bear traps/Punching dummies in particular due to their nature to stun/delay the engineer from being able to do anything.[/b]

3. Pumpkins. Spy. Boom.
Nests go up in smoke with pumpkins if dropped quickly and shot, and they are only 5 credits. Be weary of building shields however, as they will allow the sentry to take the damage. But in that case, go after the engineer, and blow him up. He's usually by his stuff, and doesn't want to leave it.

4. Remember: some entities count as view blockers.
Take a cow for example. Placing a cow down in  front of  a sentry, and then standing behind the cow, the sentry won't be able to see you if the cow is blocking the line of sight. This works in particular with demoman with their ability to lob over the cow, not putting themselves in danger. But wrangler engies will be able to counteract you on this.