Author Topic: A Modest Proposal  (Read 9724 times)

Dr.Panzer89

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A Modest Proposal
« on: March 15, 2013, 07:04:45 pm »
It's come to my attention that our beloved RTD server has had a distinct lack of players in the last few months. We expect a resurgence every month, but this have not happened. I propose this is happening due to one reason and that is the nature of the RTD server itself. The problem is that we consist of nothing but regulars and we have lost almost all of them save a small dedicated group. We do not attract new players as we seem to scare them off. Even without overly aggressive players, the added skills and perks regulars gain serve to make them stronger and new players weaker. New players realize they have no chance, regardless of skill level, leave, and never return. Now this isn't always the case, but it believe it's our biggest problem. I suggest a radical overhaul of the RTD system. Removing certain things and changing almost everything else. The main focus will be taking out rolls that make the average player near unstoppable and the very good player nigh invincible, but at the same time preserving the feel and atmosphere of the server. I really can't say how hard these changes will be to implement, but I can only hope that this will help keep the server populated and fun to play in. Dragnix, Spycheck, Rhia, Maximo, and myself have already begun brainstorming ideas and getting the ball rolling. Here's what we have.

Good rolls: These are the main offenders. Most of these need big time changes as they are either far too powerful or are too complicated.

Bad rolls: We need some removed, almost all changed. They frustrate new players and old players alike.

Neutral rolls: These are what we need, helpful in some situations, unhelpful in others. More based on skill than luck.

Trinkets: Completely removed and then revamped. Permanent buffs are insane and separate the haves from the have nots. They should be like unusuals; a luxury. Maybe higher chance to roll certain rolls or ones that augment certain rolls.

Nightmare mode: RE-IMPLEMENTED! Bigger reward for bigger risks. (Dragnix has reported there may be issues with this, we're working on it)

No more player of the month: No credits = no more incentive to play like a jackass.

No details at the moment, but we already have a list up of potential changes to rolls and the such.

Rick

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 07:29:30 pm »
These ideas make me unhappy

(Like basically all of them)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 07:31:35 pm by Rick »

mariomario42

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 07:50:38 pm »
These ideas make me unhappy

(Like basically all of them)

That's because you're happy with how things are since you know how to use them.

I'm fine with whatever changes are needed, I care more about the community and players rather than getting godmode or yoshi.

RamboJesus

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 08:16:02 pm »
All I can say is, Good Luck, Have Fun


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Dragnix

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 08:23:23 pm »
Yeah I'll start to work on the ideas this weekend. Switch things up, etc.


             

Spycheckme!

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 10:00:38 pm »
These ideas make me unhappy

(Like basically all of them)

Care to elaborate?

All I can say is, Good Luck, Have Fun

Sarcasm?  Or are you genuinely wishing us the best of luck?

Majicaster2

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 11:56:38 pm »

I'm fine with whatever changes are needed, I care more about the community and players rather than getting godmode or yoshi.

This. I have been waiting for RTD to get more people on. I usually wait until there is about 6 people before I join. 2 people is too little and I usually have other games with other friends.

aaaandrew

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2013, 12:37:59 am »
I guess you guys don't need community input then. You asked what needs to be done, the community responded, and then went ahead and not have any further public discourse, but just in the privacy of a small group of people. Then created a new thread with half the stuff the community already talked about. Why was a new thread created? the other thread was just fine.

I see you guys all online, how hard is it to move into tf2 for a couple hours? Yes, there are other games out there, but you guys all talk about seeding the server but how about actually chilling in the server and wait for people to join, inviting people as well. In the past I remember seeing more randoms/regulars trying to seed the server than the admins. The last time there was people attempting to seed to my knowledge was about two-three weeks ago when cogen was trying to get people in; if you want a community it has to be a lot more frequent than every three weeks.

Why isn't the wiki editable by others? "wiki - a web application that allows anyone visiting a website to edit content on it"
It took me a few minutes to find the rolls list, by going through byways and not a direct link; which means a newbie probably would have a harder time finding a link. There should be link on the front page that goes directly to the rolls page. In addition, a large portion of the rolls listed aren't even rollable and should be moved to the removed rolls section. I was literally going to do this for the community as I was writing this couldn't edit the so-called 'wiki.'


I'd learn how to do it if I am told "you can edit stuff," I wouldnt want to learn if I don't have an opportunity to create code.

I was personally asked on what can be done months ago, I offered help, but further discourse was never implemented. I was up for helping, but not having active community discussions, creating new discussion threads, just puts me off on the idea of trying to help.


Jarrett000

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 01:23:46 am »
Just completely remove stats in general. People wont tryhard for ranks and imo it's kinda a waste of funds.
 
The wiki is locked because when it was open, bots would come in and make their own pages. To edit it you'd need the get a wiki account made by Fox, but since Fox is gone I can only assume Kilandor can do that.
 
Remove the crazy ass maps nobody has heard of off the standard rotation, put them in the admin menu. It would be different with a strong playerbase, but the only way to remake the community is to get new pubbers to join a regular map for a surprise.
 
If anyone wants my opinion on anything just ask, I haven't been in contact with a lot of people as of late.
 
Also pm me and I'll try to shove .RtC or Chat 2 in the server.
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Dr.Panzer89

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 01:29:10 am »
I guess you guys don't need community input then. You asked what needs to be done, the community responded, and then went ahead and not have any further public discourse, but just in the privacy of a small group of people. Then created a new thread with half the stuff the community already talked about. Why was a new thread created? the other thread was just fine.


I've been coming up with ideas for a total overhaul and discussing them in Mumble for the past month now. I can't speak for the others, but I really don't visit these forums often. Dragnix, Rhia, Spycheck, Maximo, and myself talk almost daily in mumble. We don't do this to exclude others, if you'd like in, just ask for the password. I created a new thread because these were the ideas we were having. The fact that we are having similar ideas parallel to each other is a good thing, is it not? If you're upset at the new thread I'm sure Spycheck can merge this one with the existing one, but I don't think that would be a good idea. We both want to get new players, but we're having different ideas how to go about that. This thread is for a total overhaul on the RTD system, not holding raffles or give aways to get people on.

I see you guys all online, how hard is it to move into tf2 for a couple hours? Yes, there are other games out there, but you guys all talk about seeding the server but how about actually chilling in the server and wait for people to join, inviting people as well. In the past I remember seeing more randoms/regulars trying to seed the server than the admins. The last time there was people attempting to seed to my knowledge was about two-three weeks ago when cogen was trying to get people in; if you want a community it has to be a lot more frequent than every three weeks.


Rhia has tried very hard in the past to populate the server and it's been met with no luck. Sure we have small spikes and some randoms, but it hasn't been working. As for most of us not being in TF2, we each have our reasons. The competitive scene burned me out on this game and my financial situation hasn't necessarily helped. We need a long term solution to attract new players, the administration can't be counted on to populate the server every night.

Why isn't the wiki editable by others? "wiki - a web application that allows anyone visiting a website to edit content on it"
It took me a few minutes to find the rolls list, by going through byways and not a direct link; which means a newbie probably would have a harder time finding a link. There should be link on the front page that goes directly to the rolls page. In addition, a large portion of the rolls listed aren't even rollable and should be moved to the removed rolls section. I was literally going to do this for the community as I was writing this couldn't edit the so-called 'wiki.'


I do not know who runs the TF2 wiki, but I do agree that it badly needs an overhaul.

I'd learn how to do it if I am told "you can edit stuff," I wouldnt want to learn if I don't have an opportunity to create code.


I was personally asked on what can be done months ago, I offered help, but further discourse was never implemented. I was up for helping, but not having active community discussions, creating new discussion threads, just puts me off on the idea of trying to help.


Then that's what we're doing here; getting the ball rolling.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 01:32:26 am by Dr.Panzer89 »

Rick

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2013, 01:30:18 am »
These ideas make me unhappy

(Like basically all of them)

Care to elaborate?

Sure.


Sarcasm?  Or are you genuinely wishing us the best of luck?


Good rolls: These are the main offenders. Most of these need big time changes as they are either far too powerful or are too complicated.

I think most rolls are fine besides a few terrible ones (Diarhia, Reflect Shield) and honestly if the others weren't powerful they wouldn't be fun to get.

Bad rolls: We need some removed, almost all changed. They frustrate new players and old players alike.

I actually agree with this. I think it sucks a lot to get gimped with half damage for 20 secs (about your average lifespan), and doesn't actually make it more fun to play against you, resulting in a total loss of fun across the board. HOWEVER DOOM IS STILL EXCITING AND COOL!!!

Neutral rolls: These are what we need, helpful in some situations, unhelpful in others. More based on skill than luck.

Like what, dude? I think it's a little misguided to start trying to turn RTD into UltraBalance central. Even Texas Hold 'Em, the "thinking man's game" is mostly about "playing the odds" and exploiting them to your advantage. You can always just get a free win from a lucky hand, though, and that's not so bad with 1 second respawn time.

Trinkets: Completely removed and then revamped. Permanent buffs are insane and separate the haves from the have nots. They should be like unusuals; a luxury. Maybe higher chance to roll certain rolls or ones that augment certain rolls.
THESE ARE THE ONLY REASON I STILL PLAY RTD AT ALL
I know I might get judged, but hear me out. Allowing players to choose and customize their abilities and test different item combinations on different classes is the most interesting thing on here.
However, I agree. They do currently give old-guard players a big advantage. However, this can easily be solved by just giving everyone trinkets really easily. Like 1 trinket or upgrade to an existing one every 5 minutes easy. This would motivate new players to stick around and upgrade/unlock trinkets.
I think the real problem is frickin' talent points. These aren't actually that fun to exploit, take a really long time to rack up, but add up to create an unacceptable advantage over new players.

Nightmare mode: RE-IMPLEMENTED! Bigger reward for bigger risks. (Dragnix has reported there may be issues with this, we're working on it)
Whatever, wouldn't use. Seems boring and a waste of dev time.

No more player of the month: No credits = no more incentive to play like a jackass.
Sure
These ideas make me unhappy

(Like basically all of them)

That's because you're happy with how things are since you know how to use them.

I'm fine with whatever changes are needed, I care more about the community and players rather than getting godmode or yoshi.
I'd prefer you not assume these things about my position.

EDIT: f-d up the quote, mariomario said i was happy because i know how to use this arcane knowledge, not spycheck
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 01:34:38 am by Rick »

Abridge

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2013, 01:48:56 am »
I wish Fox was here, he knew what fun was, I remember once I was try-harding on two fort of all maps and fox spent the entire time just chasing and air blasting me despite repeatedly dying.

You can balance RTD all you want, the point of RTD was always fun not fair. I disagree with a lot suggested. I FUCKING LOVE STATS, the gameme used to be my favorite page to visit. If you want to stop players of the month because you guys can't figure out how to reward credits fine, but I had many good months competing for that top spot, damn Sunny D would always farm with spy, and we had good friendly competitive fun when he used to play. Trinkets are the most fun, it was the reason some of our newbies would play on the server so much, to get enough credits for at trinket. Rick sums up many of my thoughts pretty well.



Dr.Panzer89

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2013, 01:49:40 am »
The only good roll we want flat out gone would be armor, everything else (diarhia, class immunity, hulk) just need changes to make them less powerful.

Trust me, we like doom! I see it as a neutral roll, something that can go either way. Making these rolls more useful to the more skilled player.

Trinkets are just flat out overpowered, we've all agreed on that point. If we give everyone all the trinkets, we'll see the same two or three trinkets equipped on every player. We want to avoid this. I also agree with the talent point idea, we're working on it.

We want nightmare mode for the hardcore players who want a bigger challenge, so players that regularly do very well (Cogen, Stryder, SunnyD) have the option to make the game harder for themselves and easier for others, if they choose to do so. But at this point in time, it's not certain that this will even be doable.

ThePepe

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2013, 01:54:01 am »
I know a good 15+ people on my friends list would actually play on the server, if it ever had Fixed Spread, including myself. Random Spread is something I hate, so it results in me roll stacking just to make up for it. The stats are also something that I enjoyed playing the server for, I remember actually not roll stacking when it used to be active, to earn my top 5 that way. There is always supporting the comp scene too, like enabling Fixed Spread, which is highly enjoyed and wanted by a lot of players.

Dr.Panzer89

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Re: A Modest Proposal
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2013, 02:01:05 am »
I wish Fox was here, he knew what fun was, I remember once I was try-harding on two fort of all maps and fox spent the entire time just chasing and air blasting me despite repeatedly dying.

You can balance RTD all you want, the point of RTD was always fun not fair. I disagree with a lot suggested. I FUCKING LOVE STATS, the gameme used to be my favorite page to visit. If you want to stop players of the month because you guys can't figure out how to reward credits fine, but I had many good months competing for that top spot, damn Sunny D would always farm with spy, and we had good friendly competitive fun when he used to play. Trinkets are the most fun, it was the reason some of our newbies would play on the server so much, to get enough credits for at trinket. Rick sums up many of my thoughts pretty well.

I believe we can make things fair and still keep them fun. The stats and player of the month really seem to drive off new players by creating an overly competitive environment. Not all noobs want to grind for months to get a shot at getting a random trinket that may or may not be good. We're doing all this to attract new players that like playing casually.

I know a good 15+ people on my friends list would actually play on the server, if it ever had Fixed Spread, including myself. Random Spread is something I hate, so it results in me roll stacking just to make up for it. The stats are also something that I enjoyed playing the server for, I remember actually not roll stacking when it used to be active, to earn my top 5 that way. There is always supporting the comp scene too, like enabling Fixed Spread, which is highly enjoyed and wanted by a lot of players.

I'm going to guess that those 15 plus people are mostly competitive players. We really want to keep the server friendly for casual players. Things like fixed spread, no random crits, and class limits are not what RTD is about. We like our randomness, it's the point of the server.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 02:06:38 am by Dr.Panzer89 »